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LIVE: Full Council, Tuesday, 21 January, 2025


The council chamber at County Hall

Future devolution for Cornwall, safety work on the A30 and a call for the National Trust to use holiday homes as long term lets have all been submitted as motions for debate when Cornwall Council meets in Truro today.

The Chairman of the council will decide on the day of the meeting if each motion can be discussed, or if they will be referred to committee instead.

The meeting will also consider the governance arrangements for council-owned entities, the future chairmanship of the Audit Committee, and a review of the council’s procedures surrounding extraordinary meetings.

The full council will meet in the Council Chamber at County Hall  in Truro, starting at 10.30am.

The meeting will also see questions from the public and from councillors to Cabinet members.

You can watch the meeting live via our webcast service, or follow the live blog below:

Watch the webcast


9.30am: Today's meeting will begin at 10.30am


10.20am: The chamber is beginning to fill up ahead of the meeting


10.30am: The meeting is about to start, and will begin with prayers.

Read the agenda


10.35am: Today's meeting is being led by the vice-chairman Cllr Jordan Rowse and the chairman, Cllr Pauline Giles is unwell.  He sends his best wishes to Cllr Giles and wishes her a speedy recovery.


10.36am: We hear apologies for absence, and declarations of interest next.


10.37am: Cllr Rowse is making his announcements, and recognises those Cornish residents recognised in the New Year's Honours list.  He also tells the chamber that the council held a well-attended councillor fair for prospective candidates for May's elections.


10.40am: We move onto the Leader's announcements.  Cllr Linda Taylor tells the chamber:  "This promises to be an incredibly important year for us all, with May’s election obviously a focal point, and the promise of clarity over the Governments plans for local government across the country going forwards.
"We have a motion submitted on that very issue for later today, and I will be interested to hear everyone’s views on how we want to see Cornwall’s devolutions desires met going forwards.
"What we really need is clarity from Westminster, but that is something we have been sadly lacking in recent months.
"As I raised at Cabinet last week, we have never been faced with a situation before where the Government has, without warning, left us with an unexpected £5.2 million hole in our budget just a couple of days before the Christmas break.
"We all know how difficult the budget process has been, and so having to find significant further savings has put us in a very difficult situation.
"Disappointingly, it is becoming clear that Cornwall is not on Westminster’s priority list, and we will clearly have to fight harder than ever before for every penny going forwards.
"We have raised our concerns over this with Westminster, but sadly I do not hold much hope that they will listen.
"At the election we were promised multi-year settlements, at present we have last-minute cuts.  This has to change, and change quickly."


10.43am: We now move onto approval of the minutes of the last council meeting


10.44am: We now hear public questions.  There is just one today, asking that members confirm they will not become directors of Cornwall Airport Newquay.  Cllr Louis Gardner says the council is not selling the airport, but has yet to make a decision on whether to enter into a joint venture to secure the long term future of the facility.  He says he cannot predict the future when it comes to such matters as directors, but expects that if any political appointments were made, they would be unpaid roles.


10.47am:  We now move onto item 8.1, the Governance Arrangements of Council Owned Entities and the Protocol for Governance Arrangements of Council Owned Entities.

Cllr David Harris, deputy leader of the council, says he finds it hard to support some of the recommendations, and suggests they need to go through the scrutiny process.


10.50am: Matthew Stokes, the council's monitoring officer, says he does not share Cllr Harris' concerns over the advice given regarding the report, and sets out his reasoning.  He says he has no issue with the report going to scrutiny.

Watch the webcast


10.54am: Cllr Julian German says he is confused, as he believes Cllr Linda Taylor as leader decided to remove councillors from the boards of council-owned entities, and this paper is part of the process of ratifying that process.

He questions why Cllr Harris does not support it, and asks why the administration does not seem to want to back its own decision.


10.57am:  Cllr Andrew Mitchell says he is also bemused by the paper.  He says that councillors are simply not included in the decision making process any more, and says it is time those powers are returned to councillors.


11am: Cllr John Conway says it is essential that all councillor know what is happening in the council's own companies, and welcomes the recommendation to return the paper for further consideration.


11.03am: Cllr Peter LaBroy says he does not feel councillors really know what is happening in the council's companies, and wants that to change.


11.04am: Cllr Tim Dwelly asks the chairman why there is a meeting with nothing of note on the agenda other than just process.  He asks why there is nothing on housing or the economy and questions if it is good use of the council's time.  Cllr Rowse responds by saying there are items on the agenda that need discussing and voting on, and three important motions to consider.


11.06am: Cllr Mike McLening says it is important that councillors sit on outside bodies to ask the questions that they sometimes do not want asked.


11.08am: Cllr John Fitter says that if councillors are appointed to boards, they are bound by confidentiality laws and would not be able to disclose information, so he sees no reason why the matter should be returned for further discussion.


11.10am: Councillors are voting on whether to send the recommendations back to committee for further discussion. The vote is won with just seven votes against


11.13am: We now move onto item 8.2, dealing with the Audit Committee Chairman and Vice-Chairman, and recommending the roles should not be filled by anyone from the administration.


11.15am: Cllr Peter LaBroy says he supports the idea that the chairman should not be from the administration, but questions whether it should be set in stone, as he believes the best person should get the role, regardless of political persuasion.


11.20am: Cllr Phillip Desmonde asks if there was a ruling coalition, would all parties involved in the coalition be ruled out from being able to chair the committee.  The monitoring officer confirms this to be the case.


11.24am: An amendment watering down the motion is submitted, which would allow members of the administration to become chairman by suggesting only one of the chairman or vice chairman should be independent.  Cllr John Conway says he will vote against the amendment as he believes 'you should not mark your own homework' and that the chairman should not be from the ruling administration.


11.30am: A vote on the amendment is lost by a clear margin.  Councillors now return to debating the original recommendation.


11.32am: Cllr Stephen Rushworth asks what would happen in the case of a rainbow coalition of all parties.  The monitoring officer says that would have to be addressed if the situation ever arose.


11.33am: Councillors will now vote on the recommendation.  It is approved with just seven votes against.


11.34am:  We now move onto 8.3, Review of Council Procedure Rules - looking at how the council would proceed in the case of the leader of the council resigning, or falling ill and being unable to continue in the role.


11.37am:  Cllr John Conway says he welcomes the clarity that the new recommendations will provide on how to move a motion of no confidence.

Cllr Linda Taylor, leader of the council, says she is happy to report she is fit and well, and will be leading the council through up until the election, which she says she knows will please some people, and not others.


11.41am: Cllr Julian German asks to move to the vote on all three sections of the recommendation immediately.


11.44am:  Cllr Rowse says the debate will continue on each section before a decision is made on whether all three can be voted on at once.

Cllr Colin Martin says he welcomes the clarification the recommendations provide.


11.48am: Cllr Barry Jordan introduces the second and third sections of the recommendations; which refer to substitutions and public questions.


11.49am: Cllr Phillip Desmonde asks for clarification regarding public questions and whether they can be submitted at extraordinary meetings. He says he understands they could be emotive at such crucial meetings, but questions whether it is right to exclude them from such important meetings.

Cllr Christopher Wells says the public have many ways to express their views to councillors, and that there is no need to bring extra emotion into such crucial meetings.

The monitoring officer says that this refers to public questions at a meeting called to vote on the potential removal of the leader - and would not apply to other extraordinary meetings.


11.58am: Cllr Leigh Frost, Cllr Kate Ewert and Cllr Colin Martin all raise concerns over the second item, which states that you must have a substitute you cannot attend a meeting online.  Cllr Frost says that means you risk losing expertise from the meetings.  All three call for the second item to be returned to committee for further discussion.  The leader, Cllr Linda Taylor, agrees.


12.05pm: Cllr Colin Martin puts forward an amendment to send item two back to the committee. Cllr Jordan accepts the amendment, meaning the item will return to committee. A vote will now take place on parts one and three, as well as the decision to send the second part back to committee.

Read the agenda


12.12pm:  The vote is carried with just one vote against.


12.13pm: We now move onto motions, with the chairman to decide on which can be debated today. The first is on safety work on the Plusha junction of the A30.  It is being referred to Cabinet due to the financial implications.

Cllr Adrian Parsons outlines the motions to the chamber, stating it has been too long since works were first drawn up without any action being taken.

He highlights the number of accidents at the junction, with four fatalities in recent years.

Watch the webcast


12.17pm: Cllr Parsons words are greeted by applause from across the chamber.


12.18pm: The next motion, calling for the National Trust to use its holiday lets as permanent lets for local residents, is approved for debate.

Cllr Julian German, who submitted the motion, says that such a move would encourage other landlords to follow suit, having a positive benefit for people looking for accommodation.  He says he does not want to harm the council's relationship with the National Trust, so has spoken to them, and that they welcome the debate.

He says the council needs to do more to address the housing crisis, and asks for colleagues to support the motion.


12.21pm: Cllr Hilary Frank seconds the motion, saying it sends a real message that homes should be for living in, and not just for visiting.


12.23pm: Cllr Thalia Marrington says she supports the motion, and wants to issue an amendment that it is extended to other significant landowners in Cornwall.  The amendment is accepted.


12.24pm: Cllr Adam Paynter says he is happy to support the motion, and suggests with tax changes imminent for holiday lets, it could be a good time to persuade people to change the use of their properties.


12.26pm: Cllr Phillip Desmonde says he objects to the motion as it is mean and political and would affect a much-loved charity and its vital work.  He says it seeks to defund an institution at 'the heart of our heritage'.


12.28pm: Cllr Paul Wills says the holiday lets are worth a lot of money to the National Trust, which they would stand to lose if they were forced to rent them out as permanent homes instead.  He says it should be the Trust's own decision to make.


12.31pm: Cllr Andrew Mitchell says he does not understand how the last two speakers have found such bitterness in the motion, and says he wants to represent the 20,000 people in need of a new home.  He says the council needs to do more itself as well, with a planning system that supports holiday homes over affordable housing, and says the authority needs to look at itself, but it is also right to ask large organisations to think about what they do with their housing.


12.34pm: Cllr Jennifer Cruse says she is conflicted on the motion, as she understands there is a housing crisis, but does not want to penalise the National Trust.


12.36pm: Cllr Michael Bunney says he welcomes the motion as a supporter of the National Trust, and says heritage is about living and breathing communities, and he believes it is right to ask the trust to consider this.


12.39: Cllr Dick Cole says the National Trust should not only protect buildings and land, but the people of Cornwall as well.


12.40pm: Cllr Nick Craker says he will support the motion, and says he can see no harm in writing to the Trust to ask them to review their portfolio to see if any houses are suitable, and to do the same with other large institutions.


12.45pm: Cllr Louis Gardner, portfolio holder for the economy, says he supports the intent of what is trying to be done, but questions why the National Trust is being singled out and suggests the motion is changed to state the council writes to all significant landowners in Cornwall.  He suggests an amendment to that effect.

Cllr German says he does not accept the amendment.  We will now hear speakers debate the amendment.  


12.48pm: Cllr Dulcie Tudor says she would find it easier to support the motion if the amendment is accepted.  


12.50pm: Cllr Dominic Fairman says he believes that the National Trust's name should remain on the motion as the organisation is made up of memebrs, and the impact would be far wider reaching.


12.52pm: Cllr Thalia Marrington says she is surprised the debate has become political, and suggests that, as Cllr German has said, the Trust is named so they can provide a leadership role in the sector.  She says her amendment already brings all other landowners into the motion.


12.55pm: Cllr Julian German says that the National Trust's stated ambition is 'to create vibrant places', and that he hopes this motion would help them to start the debate on how they can help address the housing crisis.

He asks what the phrase 'significant landowners' means and suggests the ambiguity would cause problems.


12.58pm: Cllr Olly Monk, portfolio holder for housing, says he was concerned when he first heard the motion, and says that, having heard the debate, he believes the motions should contain the words 'National Trust'.


1.01pm: Cllr Linda Taylor says she believes this is the moment in time to approach major landowners to try and find more homes, and says a hollow community does not make a good place to live.

She says this will not solve the issues overnight, but to get people around the table may make people's social consciences reflect on the need to address the housing crisis.


1.04pm: Cllr Tim Dwelly says he feels the National Trust may welcome this motion, and says he hopes the council can work with them to see if they will respond to new thinking.


1.07pm: Cllr Loveday Jenkin says she does not believe they should replace a carefully crated motion with a vague amendment.  


1.09pm: Cllr Leigh Frost says he agrees with Cllr Monk and wants to find a form of words which all can agree on, and that removing the words 'National Trust' from a motion specifically about the trust seems wrong.


1.11pm: Cllr Dick Cole says he agrees with Cllrs Frost and Monk, and suggests a form of words could be found to gain support from across the chamber.


1.12pm: The amendment is lost, and we now return to the debate on the original motion.  Cllr Carol Mould, portfolio holder for neighbourhoods, asks if the motion calls for the homes to become affordable, or open market rental properties, and she suggests they would not benefit those most in need if they are open market.


1.14pm: Cllr Stephen Rushworth says that by naming the National Trust the motion will get the maximum publicity which may make private holiday let owners reconsider their own properties, which may help address the housing crisis.


1.16pm: Cllr Loic Rich says that at present each home being put out for rent is getting between 150 and 200 applications, demonstrating the desperate need for more homes to be made available as long term rentals.


1.19pm: Cllr Olly Monk suggests that tweaking the wording to 'The National Trust and all significant landowners across Cornwall' could lead to wider support across the chamber.  He says there is a housing crisis that needs addressing, but says action is already taking place, with the introduction of the council tax premium on second homes is already seeing more homes going onto the open market.


1.27pm: We are now moving to the vote on the motion.  It is carried with widespread support.  We will now break for lunch until 2.10pm.

 


 

2.14pm: We have started again after lunch, with the third motion, on Cornish devolution, being given the go-ahead for debate.


2.15pm: The motion is introduced by Cllr Dick Cole, the leader of the Mebyon Kernow group on the council.  He says he has been pleased by the unified approach to the issue from members from all political persuasions, and says he hopes that all members accept the motion is not about making political mischief, but reflects a common desire to achieve the best possible deal on a Cornwall-only footprint.


2.18pm: The motion is seconded by Cllr Peter LaBroy, who says the future of Cornwall is at stake.  He says we need fair funding and not a new cross-border authority, with centralised decision making meaning a loss of accountability.


2.21pm: The debate is now opened to members. First to speak is Cllr Michael Bunney.  He says there is a unique opportunity for a Cornwall-only devolution deal, and says members need to speak with one voice, and not use the issue as a political football.


2.24pm: Cllr John Fitter says he supports the motion.  He says you don't need deep roots in Cornwall to understand it is a unique place and different to the rest of the country.  


2.26pm: Cllr Leigh Frost tells the chamber that the border between Cornwall and England was set in 936AD, and has remained in place ever since.  He says we do not need to rush into anything, and that now is the time to stand together and to show Westminster what Cornwall wants.


2.28pm: Cllr Loic Rich says we live in one of the most centralised countries in Western Europe, and we need power handed down.


2.30pm: Cllr Tim Dwelly says it is clear how Cornwall is a very different place and the idea of having a Devon-based mayor selected by the larger number of voters over the border is unthinkable.


2.33pm: Cllr Tim Dwelly calls for a recorded vote on the motion, and is supported by the required 'more than a third' of councillors.


2.34pm: Cllr Loveday Jenkin is next to speak.  She says members are in the chamber to represent the people of Cornwall, and to deliver what they want, and that she has not heard anyone calling for a Devon-based mayor.


2.37pm: Cllr Phillip Desmond says he backs the motion, and lists the many successes Cornwall has enjoyed.  He points to the now-defunct South West Regional Development Agency as an example of how cross-border organisations do not benefit Cornwall.  He suggests an amendment to the motion criticising Cornwall's MPs for a 'lack of success' in making the case for the devolution for Cornwall.


2.42pm:  Cllr Dick Cole says he does not want to accept the amendment which is designed to bring people together.


2.43pm: Cllr Andrew George, who is also the MP for West Cornwall, says the amendment should be ignored, and that by standing together with cross-party support is the way of getting things done.  He says the amendment undermines all they are trying to achieve.


2.45pm: Cllr Andrew Mitchell says they should vote on the amendment now rather than just hear from multiple members all saying how wrong it is.  The vote on the amendment is held, with just four votes for it.


2.47pm: Cllr Andrew Mitchell now restarts the debate on the original motion, and says, as a Cornishman, he believes Cornishness is a state of mind, and anyone who wants to live here is welcome.

He says that Plymouth City Council is not an example of a place he would like to join with, and that, whenever organisations are merged across the border, such as Devon & Cornwall Police, Cornwall does not get fair funding.


2.50pm:  Cllr James Mustoe is next to speak, saying he finds it a strange experience to find himself on the side of Labour MPs standing up against the Government.

He says it is the wrong time ahead of May's elections to be making such momentous decisions.


3pm: Cllr David Harris says he supports the motion, but cannot support absolutely writing off any potential changes in the future.


3.02pm: Cllr John Conway says he cannot support the motion as there is no mention of the cross-border interaction that takes place in the east of Cornwall.


3.09pm: Cllr Martin Worth and Cllr Stephen Barnes both say they will support the motion.


3.10pm: Cllr Louis Gardner says he supports the motion and wants a Cornwall-only deal, but says he is worried the council may end up fighting for something that may never happen.


3.18pm: Cllr Barbara Ellenbroek asks the monitoring officer to clarify point four, which states elected members will not countenance any cross-border agreement.  She asks if they agree to the motion, does it bind the council to that decision going forwards.  The monitoring officer says it does not, and that the issue could be revisited.


3.23pm: Cllr Laurie Magowan says he is also concerned by point four, and says that speaking to people in his constituency, people do want to be able to discuss exactly what any deal would be.  He asks whether point four could be removed from the motion.


3.26pm: Cllr Dick Cole says he would struggle to change it as it would materially change the motion as it stands, but reminds members that this would only be in place until after May's elections.


3.28pm: Cllr Kate Ewert, Labour group leader on the council, says she believes the council is hamstrung if it does agree to a motion saying it would be unable to engage in cross-border discussions.


3.30pm: Cllr Linda Taylor says she does agree with point four, and says she does not believe restricting who the council can engage with is a democratic move.


3.34pm: A vote on the amendment is now taking place, on the possible removal of point four.  The vote is lost.


3.37pm: We return to the main debate.  Cllr Connor Donnithorne is next to speak and says he is minded to support the motion.   He says it comes with a feeling of regret, as he says it is clear that if the council does not accept a cross-border deal, Cornwall could miss out on new powers and more funding to deliver services.


3.40pm: Cllr Olly Monk is next to speak, and says the fact he is not Cornish allows him some detachment from the issue.  He says the sense of pride and 'Cornishness' he understands, but fears it is also a sense of stubbornness, which could cost Cornwall dear.

He says he will probably abstain as he fears Cornwall will suffer if the council pursues an unattainable deal.


3.43pm: Cllr Linda Taylor says she cannot support the motion due to point four, but says she will put her hopes on the six local MPs to go out and fight for the Cornwall-only deal that people want.


3.45pm: Cllr Andrew George says the MPs are asking councillors to hold their nerve, and says that at a meeting with the Deputy Prime Minister they MPs were told that, if a Cornwall-only deal was granted immediately it would set a precedent for other authorities to pursue bespoke deals, and so he has hope going forwards.


3.48pm: Cllr Dick Cole is now summing up before the final vote. He says the motion has been drafted to set out the council's position, and that it does not stop anyone talking to others going forward.


3.51pm:  We now move onto the vote.  There are 56 votes four, four against and 11 abstentions.


3.53pm: We now move onto questions to cabinet members from councillors.